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Snowmobile Forums => Political Discussion => Topic started by: tony b on May 20, 2013, 09:46:01 AM

Title: 20 days left
Post by: tony b on May 20, 2013, 09:46:01 AM
http://free.timeanddate.com/countdown/i3eswmk5/n64/cf111/cm0/cu5/ct5/cs0/ca0/cr0/ss1/cac00f/cpc000/pcf00/tcf00/fs200/szw576/szh243/tatThe%20Conceal%20Carry%20Cliff/tac000/tptTime%20since%20Event%20started%20in/tpc000/mac000/mpc000/iso2013-06-09T13:00:00
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: AdrenalineJunky on May 20, 2013, 12:12:41 PM
What are the shitcago thugs up to now?  No more permits for conceal?
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: tony b on May 20, 2013, 12:36:42 PM
they have until June9 to pass a CC law or it automatically becomes Constitutional Carry by default.  which in IL means, anyone that can legally buy a gun can legally carry, period.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: thnksno on May 21, 2013, 09:24:23 AM
CHICAGO (STMW) – Five people have been killed and at least 18 others wounded — including a 12-year-old boy left in critical condition — in shootings across the city since Friday night.

The most recent fatal shooting happened around 2:10 a.m. Sunday in the 300 block of South Cicero in the West Side’s Austin neighborhood, police said. Edward Jordan, 53, of the 4900 block of West Lexington, was shot in the neck and later died at Mount Sinai Hospital, according to the Cook County Medical Examiner’s office.

Around 9:15 p.m. Saturday, shots were fired at a group of people at Ryan Harris Memorial Park in the 6800 block of South Lowe in the Englewood neighborhood. Shaneda Lawrence, 30, of the 9600 block of South Peoria, was shot in the head and pronounced dead at 12:46 a.m. at Stroger Hospital. A woman in her 20s was shot in the wrist, and a 24-year-old man was shot in the back. Both were taken to area hospitals.

Around 3:50 a.m. Saturday, Keith Johnson, 27, was shot in the head during an argument with a man on the sidewalk in the 4800 block of West Iowa on the West Side, authorities said.

Around 8:05 p.m. Friday, Ramar Bonner, 40, was found shot to death in the 200 block of North Mayfield in the Austin neighborhood. Bonner had been shot in the back of his head. Police said an unknown gunman fled on foot after the shooting.

Around 7:24 p.m. Friday, Clifton Barney, 17, was found with a gunshot wound in his chest in the 7700 block of South Langley in the Chatham neighborhood on the South Side. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

At least 18 others were wounded in weekend shootings:

Around 2:25 a.m. Monday, a 17-year-old boy and a 19-year-old woman were shot in the 4900 block of North Whipple Street in the Albany Park neighborhood. The two were sitting in a parked car when a gunman approached and opened fire, striking the teen boy in the head and shoulders and the woman in the right forearm, police said. The teen was taken in critical condition to Advocate Illinois Masonic Medical Center. The woman was taken in “stable” condition to Swedish Covenant Hospital, but was later transported to Saint Francis Hospital in Evanston.

Around 1 a.m. Monday, a man walked with a gunshot wound to the leg walked into Roseland Community Hospital, where he was listed in “stable” condition, police said. The man, thought to be in his 20s, told police he was in the 400 block of West 122nd Street when he was shot.

Around 8:39 p.m. Sunday, a 20-year-old man was seriously wounded in the South Side Morgan Park neighborhood. Two suspects shot at him and another person in a gangway in the 11500 block of South Church Street, as they tried to rob the men. He was taken to Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn with a gunshot wound to the lower back.

Around 2:20 a.m. Sunday, a 42-year-old man and 57-year-old woman were shot in the 12000 block of South Lafayette while sitting in a vehicle when someone walked up to them and started shooting. The man suffered a graze wound to his wrist and refused medical treatment. The woman was shot in the lower right leg and taken to Roseland Hospital, police said.

Around 3 p.m. Saturday, a 12-year-old boy was wounded in a shooting in the 2800 block of West 23rd Street in the Little Village neighborhood. Police said the boy was critically wounded while handling a gun with another child. Fire Department officials said the boy had been shot multiple times and paramedics took him to Mount Sinai Hospital in critical condition. A 16-year-old boy, who was not home at the time of the shooting, was charged with misdemeanor reckless conduct for bringing the gun into the residence, police said.

At 3:35 a.m. Saturday, a 20-year-old man was driven to Mount Sinai Hospital after he was shot in shoulder in the Humboldt Park neighborhood, police said. The man was a passenger in a vehicle at Division and Pulaski when a group of males begin yelling gang slogans and opened fire.

At 11:25 p.m. Friday, three people were wounded in the 1200 block of South Kolin in the Lawndale neighborhood on the West Side. A 21-year-old woman was taken to Mount Sinai Hospital in grave condition with a gunshot wound in her neck or face, police said. A 38-year-old man was taken in serious condition to Stroger Hospital with a gunshot wound in his back. A 38-year-old woman was taken to Mount Sinai in serious condition with a gunshot wound in her right arm.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: tony b on May 28, 2013, 08:35:40 AM
so the IL house passed a law that will negate the Chicago AWB, if it passes the IL Senate then IL becomes a "Shall Issue" state
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: thnksno on May 28, 2013, 08:46:39 AM
so the IL house passed a law that will negate the Chicago AWB, if it passes the IL Senate then IL becomes a "Shall Issue" state

16hrs of training = $350+

Permit fee = $150 every 5 years

Springfield XDs = $549

It will not be cheap to carry in Illinois.

The big sticking point right now is the "Home Rule" BS which I think is lame to begin with. I carry a Kershaw knife with me everywhere and without knowing it, I have been a felon for doing so. Channahon, Crust Hill and Aurora for example it is illegal to carry a spring assisted knife. So say they kill "Home Rule" for handgun carry, you can still be taken in for a pocket knife.

I hate all forms of government.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: thnksno on May 28, 2013, 08:50:15 AM
On the knife again... So the TSA will allow you to carry a small knife now? Funny because I've only been stripped of my Kershaw a few times and it was to fly commercially. I never understood why having a knife on me 24/7/365 I never had an urge to stab someone, but suddenly getting on an airplane I might decide, now's the time.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: tony b on May 28, 2013, 08:53:00 AM
16hrs of training = $350+

Permit fee = $150 every 5 years

Springfield XDs = $549

It will not be cheap to carry in Illinois.


meh, one time fee for training, BFD.  (probably a good idea for 99.9% of people to do that anyway)

$30/yr, meh.  BFD

tons of other handguns available for a lot less.  XD is nice, but definitely not the end all be all of good handguns.  a true concealed carry piece will be much smaller than that anyway, think Ruger LCP, the key word here being CONCEALED.  if you want a concealed defensive piece it don't get much better.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: thnksno on May 28, 2013, 11:41:27 AM

meh, one time fee for training, BFD.  (probably a good idea for 99.9% of people to do that anyway)

$30/yr, meh.  BFD

tons of other handguns available for a lot less.  XD is nice, but definitely not the end all be all of good handguns.  a true concealed carry piece will be much smaller than that anyway, think Ruger LCP, the key word here being CONCEALED.  if you want a concealed defensive piece it don't get much better.

C'mon! 16hrs is freaking ridiculous! What are you going to do for 10-12hrs that you don't do in any other CCW course? A plain Jane LCP is still a $400 piece and is way too small for my freakishly large hands. The XDs also fits in a very familiar package for me. The bottom line is, it will be about a $1000 entrance fee. I'm half way there, now lets hope the law makes sense aside from cost and overburdening the citizen.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: tony b on May 28, 2013, 11:49:25 AM
there's far less "training" required for CCW than there is for a driver's license.  very minor concern.  frankly, as big of a proponent as I am for 2nd amendment, this is one thing I can get behind.  there are a BUNCH of idiots out there that have guns that don't know basic safety procedure and if you're gonna carry in public its something that should be known.

edit - btw, do some searching, you can find the LCP for $300.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: snopork on May 28, 2013, 04:06:31 PM
you guys convinc ed me - i bawt a beretta
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: thnksno on May 28, 2013, 08:08:59 PM
you guys convinc ed me - i bawt a beretta

Shotgun, 92 or a hairdo?

& FWIW - I did no convincing, but I do believe well armed, law abiding folks are a good thing for many reasons.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: thnksno on May 28, 2013, 08:14:49 PM
there's far less "training" required for CCW than there is for a driver's license.

Seriously? WTF does a 90 year old widow need to go to a Chris Costa pistol employment course to carry? Live in your "RINO world" more why don't you?

By the time you add transfer fees and possibly tax a ladies LCP is pushing $400, Bud's is clean out of them.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: greekboy on May 29, 2013, 08:53:17 AM
I'll take that deal. It's better than what we've had on the table, thus far.

Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: snopork on May 29, 2013, 10:57:09 AM
you guys convinc ed me - i bawt a beretta

Shotgun, 92 or a hairdo?

& FWIW - I did no convincing, but I do believe well armed, law abiding folks are a good thing for many reasons.
massive pistole'

U22 w/6" - only problem is the psycho hoarders and preppers have scarfed up all the ammo.

who hoards 22LR - can that kill a zombie?
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: Kingpin on May 29, 2013, 02:54:20 PM
22 lr is the preferred Zombie kill ammo, it's cheap, plentiful (used to be) and is lightweight, can easily carry a lot on your person. 

By contrast a 100 rd belt of 7.62mm (m60 variety) weighs around 10-11 lbs per belt. 

Congrats on the new iron.  Sad to see that beretta usa is moving out of maryland after that state's gun law changes. 

Hoping to score a new 12 gauge pump for myself and possibly a 20 guage for the wife. Prolly get her the junior model so it is easier to handle.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: snopork on May 29, 2013, 10:24:06 PM
I'm thinking of getting a "street sweeper" in 12gauge.  I figure if the zombies get too close in big numbers that baby will clear the way.  That Home protection Ammo they sell at Gander Mountain sure is pricey, tho - but when ya need it what else can ya do?
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: Kingpin on May 30, 2013, 07:41:16 AM
.00 buckshot will doo..
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: tony b on May 30, 2013, 07:57:34 AM
Seriously? WTF does a 90 year old widow need to go to a Chris Costa pistol employment course to carry?

when you have to resort to extreme examples to make your case your doing it wrong.

 :floor:
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: MNNavy on May 30, 2013, 09:56:30 AM
Sad to see that beretta usa is moving out of maryland after that state's gun law changes. 
I applaud Beretta USA for the move. Same with Magpul for their decision to move out of Kolorado. What I'm disappointed in is that Remington, Kimber, Colt, et al have not announced that they are moving their facilities to 2A friendly states.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: tony b on May 30, 2013, 10:00:43 AM
Sad to see that beretta usa is moving out of maryland after that state's gun law changes. 
I applaud Beretta USA for the move. Same with Magpul for their decision to move out of Kolorado. What I'm disappointed in is that Remington, Kimber, Colt, et al have not announced that they are moving their facilities to 2A friendly states.
give it time, it'll happen eventually.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: ZiRT on May 30, 2013, 11:17:05 AM
Sad to see that beretta usa is moving out of maryland after that state's gun law changes. 
I applaud Beretta USA for the move. Same with Magpul for their decision to move out of Kolorado. What I'm disappointed in is that Remington, Kimber, Colt, et al have not announced that they are moving their facilities to 2A friendly states.
give it time, it'll happen eventually.
Remington will be tough to lure away- the town, state and feds are all cutting them some pretty big breaks and they're getting lucrative military contracts. I live 3 miles from the plant- if Remington leaves, there won't be a town there.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: tony b on May 30, 2013, 11:20:15 AM
if the anti-gun nutbags get their way they would love ot go as far as banning the manufacture of them.  or at least, over time, make it such a PITA to do biz there that it would warrant the move.  lets face it, NYS is a very gun unfriendly state.  if they continue pushing those crazy laws remington will move.  and it will destroy that town.  the citizens can thank their own state legislature for that when it happens.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: Kingpin on May 30, 2013, 11:28:02 AM
the pols don't care, its a nit in the larger picture of their narrative of making people safe.  You have to break some eggs to make an omelette...
Why do people think they go after snowmobiles when there is absolutely no way that snowmobiles are the problem.  Why, because they are easy targets and distract people from the real business of government all while under the guise of safety or sustaining the environment.  The ends justifies the means, absolutely, in an ideologues mind.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: tony b on May 30, 2013, 12:04:12 PM
that bill did not pass the IL senate.

9 days til constitutional carry is enacted.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: thnksno on June 03, 2013, 08:22:56 AM
that bill did not pass the IL senate.

9 days til constitutional carry is enacted.

Yes it did, it is on Quinn's desk and for the most part veto proof. But it is a chitty bill and extremes are the ones who need protection the most. 16hrs of Chris Costa pistol employment is not going to work well for the weak and frail... Plus there is 3hrs of renewal time every 5 years, I never spent as much time learning to drive a 2 ton weapon!

Here's a quick synopsis of why the bill SUCKS!

Quote
Why would you pay what is likely to be over $300 for a class, range time, $150 every 5 years, give up your right to privacy by letting police and who knows who else have a romp through your medical records, and wait over a year to exercise your constitutional right in Illinois only to be prohibited from doing so in virtually every type of place where a violent crime or mass murder has been committed in the the last 20 years? Just to give a bunch of money to the Illinois stooge machine and feel like Clint Eastwood?

Its already legal, and its been your right since the constitution was ratified.

I thought this bill would represent a deterrent to violent crime, and couldn't wait to participate simply for that reason. It will not at all. And in 5 years, the liberal-tards will be able to say, "See, no reduction in crime; in fact, we have an increase!" Because the criminals know just where they are likely safe -- on the same turf as always.

It would be interesting to have in Illinois any incidents where law-abiding citizens without a cc permit twart crimes and end violent offenders. Any such incident will serve as a deterrent to violent crimes and criminals -- 100 times more than this ridiculous bill and affront to personal liberty. Go feed the NRA and feel like Clint and feed the Illinois ridiculous machine -- for nothing.

I was almost sold on liberty. I was actually prepared to join the NRA. Now, only an imbecile would participate in this, and every time one of them does something stupid with a gun, it will make headlines that read,"Look what Illinois cc produced," and open the door for more ridiculous and unconstitutional legislation. Nice try, Mr. Phelps. I know you mean well, but guys like you don't have a chance. What a joke.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: thnksno on June 03, 2013, 08:45:18 AM
massive pistole'

U22 w/6" - only problem is the psycho hoarders and preppers have scarfed up all the ammo.

who hoards 22LR - can that kill a zombie?

I have plenty of .22LR, I've bought nearly 7000rds from Wal*Mart in the past few months.

On Saturday I was at auction and they had a bunch of guns and ammo. RIDICULOUS!!!! Dude there paid $90.00 + 10% buyer's premium for ONE BRICK of .22LR that was possibly 2 decades old! There were actually 2 bricks up and he had CHOICE, the SOB took both! in all he paid $198 for 1000rds of .22LR.

As he was beaming a smile and leaving the room to go stash his new hoard, I ran after him. "Hey buddy!, Buddy! If you'll pay $100 for a brick of .22LR, let's trade numbers and I'll open up some ammo cans for you."

He says; "What, you don't think $0.20/round is a good deal?"

NO!

I then educated him on using the Wal*Mart smarty phone app to find ammo. The smart phone app works, it's a little cumbersome to work with but it shows stock status and prices. The online website has been dicked with to deter folks from using it to buy ammo. There's a way around it by using web developer tools and I've even published some crappy quality youtube videos about doing it.

In the past few months I've averaged about 500-600 rounds a week at NORMAL PRICES from Wal*Mart... So much so that just the other day I walked in and saw 5.56, .223, .45, .40, etc. laying there and I didn't buy any. I'm now getting picky as I'm looking for the cheaper Federal ammo and all that was there was Winchester. Further I've had to buy additional ammo cans to the point that I'm now de-boxing ammo and bought some special 8mil 6" x 6" ziploc bags to store it. I can get 100rds of 5.56/.223 and 200rds of handgun ammo in one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBW9-kgWBDA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBW9-kgWBDA)
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: tony b on June 03, 2013, 11:43:12 AM
that bill did not pass the IL senate.

9 days til constitutional carry is enacted.

Yes it did, it is on Quinn's desk and for the most part veto proof. But it is a chitty bill and extremes are the ones who need protection the most. 16hrs of Chris Costa pistol employment is not going to work well for the weak and frail... Plus there is 3hrs of renewal time every 5 years, I never spent as much time learning to drive a 2 ton weapon!

Here's a quick synopsis of why the bill SUCKS!

Quote
Why would you pay what is likely to be over $300 for a class, range time, $150 every 5 years, give up your right to privacy by letting police and who knows who else have a romp through your medical records, and wait over a year to exercise your constitutional right in Illinois only to be prohibited from doing so in virtually every type of place where a violent crime or mass murder has been committed in the the last 20 years? Just to give a bunch of money to the Illinois stooge machine and feel like Clint Eastwood?

Its already legal, and its been your right since the constitution was ratified.

I thought this bill would represent a deterrent to violent crime, and couldn't wait to participate simply for that reason. It will not at all. And in 5 years, the liberal-tards will be able to say, "See, no reduction in crime; in fact, we have an increase!" Because the criminals know just where they are likely safe -- on the same turf as always.

It would be interesting to have in Illinois any incidents where law-abiding citizens without a cc permit twart crimes and end violent offenders. Any such incident will serve as a deterrent to violent crimes and criminals -- 100 times more than this ridiculous bill and affront to personal liberty. Go feed the NRA and feel like Clint and feed the Illinois ridiculous machine -- for nothing.

I was almost sold on liberty. I was actually prepared to join the NRA. Now, only an imbecile would participate in this, and every time one of them does something stupid with a gun, it will make headlines that read,"Look what Illinois cc produced," and open the door for more ridiculous and unconstitutional legislation. Nice try, Mr. Phelps. I know you mean well, but guys like you don't have a chance. What a joke.

the bill that passed is different that the one I wrote that quote about.  it passed both house and senate on friday.  not perfect, but workable.  far better than the nightmare that would have been constitutional carrry.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: greekboy on June 03, 2013, 01:34:57 PM
I'm shocked the 16 hr class deal didn't include a psychiatric evaluation or something of that magnitude.  Than again, that should also apply to the politicians that wrote the bill.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: thnksno on June 03, 2013, 02:00:43 PM
the bill that passed is different that the one I wrote that quote about.  it passed both house and senate on friday.  not perfect, but workable.  far better than the nightmare that would have been constitutional carrry.

Why do you give up and accept lame stream ideology so easily?
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: tony b on June 03, 2013, 03:24:16 PM
the bill that passed is different that the one I wrote that quote about.  it passed both house and senate on friday.  not perfect, but workable.  far better than the nightmare that would have been constitutional carrry.

Why do you give up and accept lame stream ideology so easily?
I don't.  why do you bring such pitiful arguments to this??  this is FAR better than that POS bill in NYS, sure its not perfect, but it is workable.  $30/yr for CCW?  bfd.  2 saturdays at the range shooting and getting your "cert"?  bfd.  you make this sound like its a bataan death march just to get your CCW, which you already technically have with your foid.  so what you can't carry at a bank or public park?  like i said, not perfect, but workable.  any sane person would agree this is FAR better than what we previously had and still better than most other liberal leaning states like CA or NY.  with constitutional carry we would have had 220 different laws in the state of IL alone about CCW, you could drive across your county, pass thru a dui checkpoint and get popped for unlawful carry cuz your town's laws don't line up with the next town over.  it would have been a nightmare for the average joe carrier. at least it is consistent across the state and is a SHALL ISSUE instead of MAY ISSUE like several other southern gun friendly states.  if you can legally buy a gun in IL you can legally carry. 
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: tony b on July 09, 2013, 12:10:11 PM
IL house voted down Quinn's amendments a bit ago, up to the IL Senate now.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: MNNavy on July 10, 2013, 07:58:24 AM
IL house voted down Quinn's amendments a bit ago, up to the IL Senate now.
Senate voted to override Quinn as well.

Quote
Democratic Governor Pat Quinn had objected to major parts of the concealed carry proposal. But both chambers of the state legislature voted on Tuesday to override his veto, allowing concealed carry to become the law.

Illinois Allows Carrying Concealed Guns (http://news.yahoo.com/illinois-house-votes-allow-carrying-concealed-guns-182937243.html)
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: tony b on July 10, 2013, 08:05:03 AM
now they need to noodle out any reciprocity.  this state is so fecking arrogant though I highly doubt there will be any.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: thnksno on July 11, 2013, 10:55:23 AM
There's a lot of other goodies in this public act. For instance you can now FOID carry everywhere but government buildings.

This had to be a significant amount of butt hurt for the CPD to release this.

http://directives.chicagopolice.org/directives/data/a7a57bf0-13fc5603-92613-fc59-b4c8c0aba767ee8c.html?hl=true (http://directives.chicagopolice.org/directives/data/a7a57bf0-13fc5603-92613-fc59-b4c8c0aba767ee8c.html?hl=true)
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: tony b on July 11, 2013, 02:41:45 PM
I read the class requirements for this the other day.  so easy its ridiculous.  the live fire test is 10rds at 5m, 10rds at 7m and 10rds at 10m.  on a standard silhouette target you must hit 70%.   :laugh-til-cry: :laugh-til-cry:

at those distances I could put 10rds in my hand and throw them at the target at once and hit more than 70%   :laugh-til-cry: :laugh-til-cry:

edit -

  -  The Illinois concealed carry training will require a 16 hour course, this includes range certification.
  -  Some previous classes will be accepted up to a maximum of 8hrs toward the 16 hours required.
  -  Active or honorably dismissed military will pass for 8 hours of the 16 hours required.
  -  In order to pass the range certification, you must hit the silhouette portion of a B27 target with 70% of 30 rounds from 5 yards, 7 yards and 10 yards.


$250 for course (which includes your application fee to the state of IL for the CCL) and a $25 range fee.  total of $275, valid for 5 yrs if I'm reading correctly

edit 2 - Ex-Military only require an 8hr class, so $125 + range fee to get your CCL
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: thnksno on July 12, 2013, 09:32:14 AM
I believe Hunter Education course counts toward the 16hr training requirement as well.

My 13 year old earlier this year picked up my .45 and shot it himself the first time he ever shot a handgun. He was a little nervous at first and anticipating recoil he would drive the gun forward causing him to shoot low and limp wristed which FTE a few rounds. A range instructor happened by and gave him a 5 minute lesson, his next 13 shots at 10m all hit the silhouette.

We're going to the range tomorrow, buddy has a new Beowulf I'm excited to try.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: tony b on July 12, 2013, 09:46:15 AM
my youngest boy shot my dad's 357 S&W last summer (he was 7 at the time), loaded up with .38spec and he handled it quite well, the 686+ is kinda heavy for a handgun so recoil was minimial imho, slightly less than the typical 9mm auto.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: MNNavy on July 13, 2013, 08:43:00 AM
Well, there's at least ONE opinion columnist in Chicago who gets it.....

Steve Chapman - Gun Permit's Don't Make Gun Violence (http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentaries/215319051.html)

A few excerpts from the article...

Quote
...

It’s exceptionally rare for a previously law-abiding person to take a legally purchased firearm, load it, walk out the door and shoot someone. But that’s the specter that dominates the mind of Quinn when the subject of concealed-carry comes up. It also preoccupies Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel.

The problem of gun violence in the city, though, is a problem of violence committed by criminals and juveniles who are not allowed to own guns, much less carry them in public. To worry about legal permit holders in that context is like fretting that you may have left a faucet running as you try to escape a flood.

...

Chicago Democrats act as though this is either a) a surefire formula for more bloodshed or b) a reckless leap into the unknown. It’s neither. In recent years, we have accumulated a wealth of evidence about what happens when a state establishes a “shall-issue” system under which qualified citizens may pack pistols.

...

The number of licensees who make lethal misuse of their guns, likewise, is a microscopic percentage of the estimated 6 million people who are authorized to carry. The overwhelming majority behave in a responsible, lawful way. The people behind the epidemic of violent crime in Chicago, by contrast, don’t bother with permits and wouldn’t qualify for them.

For this group, the new law is irrelevant. Politicians who use the ongoing slaughter as a reason to oppose it only confirm that when it comes to government’s most important function, they haven’t got a clue.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: thnksno on July 14, 2013, 09:59:04 AM
Seems this shooter was a responsible gun owner who had a lot of range time.

Quote
Someone fired a gun 17 times toward a man and hit him once in the Bronzeville neighborhood overnight, according to authorities.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: thnksno on July 14, 2013, 10:19:58 AM
Well, there's at least ONE opinion columnist in Chicago who gets it.....

Folks like Quiff, Tiny Dancer the Fingerless Wonder or KKKwame Raoul and others actually believe that gang banging thugs wouldn't exist if there were no guns. The new theme is to paint all the creepy-ass-cracker suburbanites as "advantaged" because they didn't earn their felony merit badge before they became teenagers allowing the crackers to procure all the firearms. As a result, the crackers obviously are the ones supplying guns to Chitcago thugs.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: tony b on July 26, 2013, 12:50:55 PM
yay!!!  more gun law fun.

they'll NEVER confiscate your guns, right???


Quote

    A new Cook County Sheriff’s team is crisscrossing the suburbs to seize guns from thousands of people whose Firearm Owner’s Identification Cards have been revoked.  More than 3,000 people in Cook County have failed to surrender their revoked FOID cards to the state. Sheriff Tom Dart said he thinks many of them continue to possess firearms.

    The sheriff said the bigger problem is that most revoked FOID card holders continue to possess guns. Dart said he persuaded the General Assembly to include new language in the FOID law that would allow sheriffs and municipal police to obtain search warrants to look for guns in the homes of people with revoked FOID cards. Dart called the provision a “hammer” for police to wield when investigators suspect people with revoked cards have guns — but the people insist they don’t.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: thnksno on July 29, 2013, 10:04:36 AM
Been going on in CA for some time, Dart obviously got the idea from CA.

What is interesting about Dart's objective, there's little data on just how many folks have simply allowed their FOID to lapse. State law says an expired FOID holder has a 6 month grace period for renewal, but cannot buy ammunition or further gun purchases during the expired period.

However as much as I hate to, I generally agree with Dart's objective. If criminal or mental status revokes someones FOID, the card must be turned over and all weapons they posses as well. BUT, that person should be allowed to transfer the firearms before they are confiscated, or at the very least be allowed to transfer them after confiscation. Just because someone is felony DUI or mentally unstable doesn't mean the state has a right to confiscate financial assets (outside of fines for said crime) and I believe it may be argued that guns/ammo are in fact investments.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: greekboy on August 05, 2013, 01:33:53 PM
Been going on in CA for some time, Dart obviously got the idea from CA.

What is interesting about Dart's objective, there's little data on just how many folks have simply allowed their FOID to lapse. State law says an expired FOID holder has a 6 month grace period for renewal, but cannot buy ammunition or further gun purchases during the expired period.

However as much as I hate to, I generally agree with Dart's objective. If criminal or mental status revokes someones FOID, the card must be turned over and all weapons they posses as well. BUT, that person should be allowed to transfer the firearms before they are confiscated, or at the very least be allowed to transfer them after confiscation. Just because someone is felony DUI or mentally unstable doesn't mean the state has a right to confiscate financial assets (outside of fines for said crime) and I believe it may be argued that guns/ammo are in fact investments.

Investments.... I like the way you think....   :mf_gap:
 :floor:

The whole reason to have a FOID card is to check mental status and crime status. If you pose risk, you're not supposed to be able to buy / sell / trade guns or ammo.  I also do NOT agree with taking them, you should be able to sell them or give them to family members, etc. Once your status is back in good grace, you should be allowed to take possession of your stuff again...
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: Kingpin on August 05, 2013, 01:52:59 PM
For mental illness, the statute is pretty high to get a FOID revoked:

The police also check an Illinois Department of Human Services database, to disqualify any applicant who has been adjudicated as a mental defective, or who has been a patient of a mental institution within the last five years.[3] Mental health professionals are required to inform state authorities about patients who display violent, suicidal or threatening behavior, for inclusion in the Human Services database.[4] The police may also check other sources of information. There are additional requirements for applicants under the age of 21.[5]

You basically have to be deemed a threat by the state, you average run of the mill sociopath/psychopath usually flies under the radar because of medical privacy laws.  But, hey, the gun grabbers don't want to talk about that stuff.  People that are sane, law abiding, etc should not have access to guns, if we just take all the guns away, all of society's problems go away.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: thnksno on August 05, 2013, 08:20:41 PM
In some cases, I do have an investment, I am almost guaranteed a greater payout anytime in the future. Others, not so much, but I've also consistently seen ho-hum 30-40+++ year old guns sell at "live" auction for considerably more than the original purchase price.

Either way, if I legally spent $10k on guns and these guns are now only worth $5k when it is illegal for me to own them... Why should I lose the right to realize $5k, especially if I'm now a felon or mentally ill, $5k might mean a lot to me or my family?
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: tony b on August 06, 2013, 08:17:48 AM


Investments.... I like the way you think....   :mf_gap:
 :floor:

The whole reason to have a FOID card is to check mental status and crime status. If you pose risk, you're not supposed to be able to buy / sell / trade guns or ammo.  I also do NOT agree with taking them, you should be able to sell them or give them to family members, etc. Once your status is back in good grace, you should be allowed to take possession of your stuff again...

I'm a big proponent of the Brass and Lead 401k retirement program.   :beer2:
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: thnksno on August 06, 2013, 09:14:11 AM
I'm a big proponent of the Brass and Lead 401k retirement program.   :beer2:

I am as well, although I'm also a big on gold, silver, aluminum and steel for diversification. Food and instruments to filter/sterilize water also have a supporting role.
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: tony b on August 06, 2013, 09:19:33 AM
I'm a big proponent of the Brass and Lead 401k retirement program.   :beer2:

I am as well, although I'm also a big on gold, silver, aluminum and steel for diversification. Food and instruments to filter/sterilize water also have a supporting role.
gold was a good idea 8-10yrs ago, to expensive and in a bubble at the moment (imho)
Title: Re: 20 days left
Post by: greekboy on August 08, 2013, 01:09:23 PM
I'm a big proponent of the Brass and Lead 401k retirement program.   :beer2:

I am as well, although I'm also a big on gold, silver, aluminum and steel for diversification. Food and instruments to filter/sterilize water also have a supporting role.
gold was a good idea 8-10yrs ago, to expensive and in a bubble at the moment (imho)

I'm thinking of sending Todd Hoffman (of Discovery's "Gold Rush") my resume.  :floor:

Bottom line, if you purchased any sort of merchandise (including a gun) in a legal manner (not selling drugs to get the money, or committing any other crime). That product is yours - period. No governmental agency has the right to take it away. If there was a middle finger icon on here, I'd use it right now...  :ohmy: