Author Topic: Welcome to GREEN HELL  (Read 8889 times)

Offline schoolmarm

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Re: Welcome to GREEN HELL
« Reply #45 on: April 08, 2009, 03:31:31 PM »
ONLY A TOTAL FREAK COULD BELIEVE IN THIS:

WASHINGTON (AP) - The president's new science adviser said Wednesday that global warming is so dire, the Obama administration is discussing radical technologies to cool Earth's air.

John Holdren told The Associated Press in his first interview since being confirmed last month that the idea of geoengineering the climate is being discussed. One such extreme option includes shooting pollution particles into the upper atmosphere to reflect the sun's rays. Holdren said such an experimental measure would only be used as a last resort.


"It's got to be looked at," he said. "We don't have the luxury of taking any approach off the table."

Holdren outlined several "tipping points" involving global warming that could be fast approaching. Once such milestones are reached, such as complete loss of summer sea ice in the Arctic, it increases chances of "really intolerable consequences," he said.

Twice in a half-hour interview, Holdren compared global warming to being "in a car with bad brakes driving toward a cliff in the fog."

At first, Holdren characterized the potential need to technologically tinker with the climate as just his personal view. However, he went on to say he has raised it in administration discussions.

Holdren, a 65-year-old physicist, is far from alone in taking geoengineering more seriously. The National Academy of Science is making climate tinkering the subject of its first workshop in its new multidiscipline climate challenges program. The British parliament has also discussed the idea.

The American Meteorological Society is crafting a policy statement on geoengineering that says "it is prudent to consider geoengineering's potential, to understand its limits and to avoid rash deployment."

Last week, Princeton scientist Robert Socolow told the National Academy that geoengineering should be an available option in case climate worsens dramatically.

But Holdren noted that shooting particles into the air—making an artificial volcano as one Nobel laureate has suggested—could have grave side effects and would not completely solve all the problems from soaring greenhouse gas emissions. So such actions could not be taken lightly, he said.

Still, "we might get desperate enough to want to use it," he added.

Another geoengineering option he mentioned was the use of so-called artificial trees to suck carbon dioxide—the chief human-caused greenhouse gas—out of the air and store it. At first that seemed prohibitively expensive, but a re-examination of the approach shows it might be less costly, he said.
"The modern liberal mind, its distorted perceptions and its destructive agenda are the product of disturbed personalities."

Massive inflation looms over all of us, but Democrats just keep smiling and giving each other high-fives while Obama cranks out funny money like a counterfeiter on speed.

Offline OsceolaCabin

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Re: Welcome to GREEN HELL
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2009, 06:38:44 AM »
Arzehat?  Lmao!

That… from a bipolar obamanite greenie freakazoid with the pages of his Mother Earth News Magazine cumstuck?  Thanks for the compliment Jimmy! :beer:

Hey,
Do you know the sound a Prius makes when it passes by?

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMGGGGGGGaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Oh...you own one of those don't you. :laugh-til-cry:


Still clinically obese?  Surprised those Jimmy Dean fingers of yours can make the rounds on a keyboard.  No surprise a "do as I say, not as I do" glorified auctioner is your hero.  TFF, Rush is so 90's...best thing that could have happened was an Obama election for him and his cronies... :smoke:

Dipchit, the Prius is quiet when pulling juice off the battery...that was your boyfriend whispering in your ear... :nana:

Offline moondisc

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Re: Welcome to GREEN HELL
« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2009, 07:50:16 AM »
Quote
Dipchit, the Prius is quiet when pulling juice off the battery...that was your boyfriend whispering in your ear

And in 5-7 years when the battery goes bad on the Prius, what happens to it?  :shrug:
Say blah blah blah just a jackin their jaws
Gotta let it roll off my back
I don't give a damn what other people think
Waddaya think about that?



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Offline SNO4ME

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Re: Welcome to GREEN HELL
« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2009, 07:56:23 AM »
Quote
Dipchit, the Prius is quiet when pulling juice off the battery...that was your boyfriend whispering in your ear

And in 5-7 years when the battery goes bad on the Prius, what happens to it?  :shrug:

Well when ever that happens the $2.50-$3.00 a mile cost to society starts to come into play.  ;)
BTW, Hummers cost society less per mile.  :blink:
Confidence, that feeling you have before you fully understand the situation.

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Offline thnksno

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Re: Welcome to GREEN HELL
« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2009, 08:11:21 AM »
Quote
Dipchit, the Prius is quiet when pulling juice off the battery...that was your boyfriend whispering in your ear

And in 5-7 years when the battery goes bad on the Prius, what happens to it?  :shrug:

Well when ever that happens the $2.50-$3.00 a mile cost to society starts to come into play.  ;)
BTW, Hummers cost society less per mile.  :blink:

Funny too... recent data shows non-smokers cost society MORE than smokers.

They live longer into their golden years, A TIME IN THEIR LIFE WHEN THEY NEED THE MOST CARE AT THE MOST COST.
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Online tony b

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Re: Welcome to GREEN HELL
« Reply #50 on: April 10, 2009, 08:28:47 AM »
Quote
Dipchit, the Prius is quiet when pulling juice off the battery...that was your boyfriend whispering in your ear

And in 5-7 years when the battery goes bad on the Prius, what happens to it?  :shrug:

Well when ever that happens the $2.50-$3.00 a mile cost to society starts to come into play.  ;)
BTW, Hummers cost society less per mile.  :blink:

yup, i see you've read dust-to-dust huh!?!?!  hybrids are among the most expensive cars in the world once societal energy costs are considered...  my f150 was mid pack and the jeep wrangler was among the cheapest...
Blessed is the marksman for he shall never go hungry nor will he miss the guys running away with his television.

"Gsus" saves!!!!!!

Offline OsceolaCabin

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Re: Welcome to GREEN HELL
« Reply #51 on: April 10, 2009, 08:59:13 AM »
Quote
Dipchit, the Prius is quiet when pulling juice off the battery...that was your boyfriend whispering in your ear

And in 5-7 years when the battery goes bad on the Prius, what happens to it?  :shrug:

Here we go again, the battery research I compiled puts the battery life well past the mechanical life span of the vehicle.  Many reports of these fine automobiles with 250K plus on the factory batteries.  If and when a battery pack is at it's useful life, the replacement cost are coming more inline with increased manufacturing.  Last time I checked (over a year ago), the ticket was around $4,500.

What was the rational when transportation went from horse and buggy to automobiles back in your earlier days... :P

Offline OsceolaCabin

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Re: Welcome to GREEN HELL
« Reply #52 on: April 10, 2009, 09:06:30 AM »
 :laugh-til-cry:

yup, i see you've read dust-to-dust huh!?!?!  hybrids are among the most expensive cars in the world once societal energy costs are considered...  my f150 was mid pack and the jeep wrangler was among the cheapest...

Keep hitting the whip it can... :no2:

You've got the data, link it up with the source... :c-n:

Bunch of H8'ers, fruck I mean c'mon guys get on with your life.  The Prius has been a great vehicle for us, it's saved us a ton of coin over the past year and no issues.  I change the oil every 5K (hmm conventional vehicles are every 3K right?), pump 87 OCT in the tank and get 45 mpg's in the winter and low 50's in the warmer months.  The upfront cost are comparable with other midsized vehicles comparable equiped, so where is the issue?  Prius Envy, what a SOB... :hypocrite:


Online tony b

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Re: Welcome to GREEN HELL
« Reply #53 on: April 10, 2009, 09:55:43 AM »

You've got the data, link it up with the source... :c-n:



ya, actually I DO have the data, if you'll take the time to read the 458 page report maybe the green tint on your glasses will go away...

http://www.cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/DUST%20PDF%20VERSION.pdf

accord, prius, and civic hybrid were in line $/mile with vehicles such as the excursion, suburban, corvette, expedition, land cruiser, etc...  at ~$3.25/mile

f150 - $2.39/mile

industry average - $2.28/mile

scion Xb - $0.48/mile

edit to add - I know you'll poo-poo this anyway, so it really isn't of any consequence...  but the data IS out there whether or not you choose to accept it is something i can't control...
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 09:57:24 AM by tony b »
Blessed is the marksman for he shall never go hungry nor will he miss the guys running away with his television.

"Gsus" saves!!!!!!

Offline OsceolaCabin

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Re: Welcome to GREEN HELL
« Reply #54 on: April 10, 2009, 11:24:57 AM »

You've got the data, link it up with the source... :c-n:



ya, actually I DO have the data, if you'll take the time to read the 458 page report maybe the green tint on your glasses will go away...

http://www.cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/DUST%20PDF%20VERSION.pdf

accord, prius, and civic hybrid were in line $/mile with vehicles such as the excursion, suburban, corvette, expedition, land cruiser, etc...  at ~$3.25/mile

f150 - $2.39/mile

industry average - $2.28/mile

scion Xb - $0.48/mile

edit to add - I know you'll poo-poo this anyway, so it really isn't of any consequence...  but the data IS out there whether or not you choose to accept it is something i can't control...

I'll look it over when I get a chance Tony, if memory serves they base the lifetime on 100,000 miles for the hybrid.  But anyone that believes running a H3 is more cost effective than a hybrid has bigger problems.  I'm considering selling the truck, sickens me... :stirthepot:


Yeah Tony here is the first problem with this "unbiased" report - hy Prius $ 3.249 109,000 lifetime.  LOL, skew your chit:

"It should also be pointed out that on a Dust to Dust basis, the Estimated Miles doesn’t mean the
vehicle is “used up” and has no life remaining, only that this is the approximate mileage at the
time it is removed from the streets as a daily-use vehicle and sent for disposal as either a source
of parts or eventually scrapped."

TFF...psuv Escalade ESV $ 3.197 234,000...LMFAO... :floor:
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 11:40:13 AM by OsceolaCabin »

Online tony b

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Re: Welcome to GREEN HELL
« Reply #55 on: April 10, 2009, 11:46:46 AM »

You've got the data, link it up with the source... :c-n:



ya, actually I DO have the data, if you'll take the time to read the 458 page report maybe the green tint on your glasses will go away...

http://www.cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/DUST%20PDF%20VERSION.pdf

accord, prius, and civic hybrid were in line $/mile with vehicles such as the excursion, suburban, corvette, expedition, land cruiser, etc...  at ~$3.25/mile

f150 - $2.39/mile

industry average - $2.28/mile

scion Xb - $0.48/mile

edit to add - I know you'll poo-poo this anyway, so it really isn't of any consequence...  but the data IS out there whether or not you choose to accept it is something i can't control...

I'll look it over when I get a chance Tony, if memory serves they base the lifetime on 100,000 miles for the hybrid.  But anyone that believes running a H3 is more cost effective than a hybrid has bigger problems.  I'm considering selling the truck, sickens me... :stirthepot:


Yeah Tony here is the first problem with this "unbiased" report - hy Prius $ 3.249 109,000 lifetime.  LOL, skew your chit:

"It should also be pointed out that on a Dust to Dust basis, the Estimated Miles doesn’t mean the
vehicle is “used up” and has no life remaining, only that this is the approximate mileage at the
time it is removed from the streets as a daily-use vehicle and sent for disposal as either a source
of parts or eventually scrapped."

TFF...psuv Escalade ESV $ 3.197 234,000...LMFAO... :floor:


read it before you criticize...  its obvious you're missing the point of the research...
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 11:51:53 AM by tony b »
Blessed is the marksman for he shall never go hungry nor will he miss the guys running away with his television.

"Gsus" saves!!!!!!

Offline OsceolaCabin

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Re: Welcome to GREEN HELL
« Reply #56 on: April 10, 2009, 12:02:54 PM »
Quote
Why 100,000 Miles for Prius?

It has come to our attention that an Oregonian article about the Dust-to-Dust report was
light on facts, slim on details and void of any explanations. This, in turn, turned into a
bloggers’ frenzy with a key question being the life expectancy of the Prius.

To clarify:

The Prius was amortized over 100,000-plus miles for a number of reasons.
The 100,000 mile life expectancy for Prius is time as well as distance sensitive. The
historical data shows early Prius models were driven an average of only 6,700 miles per
year (rounded). At that rate, the vehicle would require 15 years to reach 100,000 miles. It
was our determination that is highly unlikely the '05 or '06 Prius models would still be in
active service let alone serviceable 15 years from today.


The reason for this is twofold: First, the first and second generation Prius hybrid
technologies are rapidly being replaced by lighter, more efficient systems for the new and
upcoming Prius versions.

Historically, vehicles that become obsolete have a shorter life span (in time) than existing
or serviceable technology.

Second, competitive vehicles to Prius are being planned by virtually all automakers using
either Prius-like dual-mode or plug-in hybrid technology (e.g. Chevrolet Volt). This
competition, looking at the historic context which is all we can do, is likely to drive the
value of older technology Prius models lower. We've already seen the early stages of this
happening with decreasing used values for all of the original batch of hybrids.
At some point, economic considerations make it far more practical for owners (or dealers
who receive them in trade) to "retire" the vehicles because a limited used-vehicle market
would exist for it. Again, in Prius's case this is time, not necessarily only mileage,
sensitive.

Can the Prius be driven more than 100,000 miles? Of course. The vehicle is superbly
engineered. But this assumes the average Prius driver begins using the car more often. If
the Prius were driven the American average of 13,000 miles per year, it would hit the
100,000 mile mark in 7.6 years, well within its attractive (financially and technologically)
useful life span. In 10 years, again about the maximum for ground-breaking technology,
it would have registered 130,000 miles. Mechanically, there is no logical reason for the
Prius not to last 130,000 miles or more.

The latest data shows Prius owners are driving more than early Prius owners and the use
of the vehicle is becoming a primary means of transportation in a household rather than a
novelty. But the average annual mileage, outside of certain southern-tier states, remains
barely above 7,000 per year.

Other components on the Prius, such as tires, are less distance-mileage friendly than nonhybrids
of the same size and weight. For example, surveys of Prius owners by us and
other research companies show barely 16,000 miles average life for original-equipment
tires compared to 43,000 for Toyota Corolla. This high-tech tire uses a compound and
design that reduces rolling resistance and thus improves fuel economy. But the typical
replacement tire for a Prius will not likely be the OEM specialty variety, cutting both fuel
economy and distance-per-battery charge of the Prius.

As for Hummer, much of the design, development and manufacturing energy costs are
spread across more than just this single model. (One of the original and recent Prius
disadvantages, quickly being turned around.)

In addition, the platform, power train and other mechanical components are shared with a
variety of other GM products and have a significantly longer post-disposal life in the
replacement market. Higher volume of components speeds manufacturing and reduces
energy per-unit costs. Add the simplicity of disposing of the Hummer and the entire permile
cost becomes lower even though the fuel economy is staggeringly worse than Prius.
And as I pointed out in the past, the energy cost per mile is unequivocally going to
decline for Prius over time as the technology continues to spread across other models and
the disposal/scrap industry learns how to deal with its high-tech materials and
components.

What a tool report IMO, if your hanging your hopes on a Prius tapping out at 109,000 miles to prove your skewed point...then I'm better off talking to a wall.  TFF, I hope you have more than this whackjob... :sleep_1:

Specialty products, LMFAO...aluminum is a specialty metal.  TFF Ford just invested prior to my arze getting the boot, millions and millions of dollars into an aluminum recycling line.  Wonder what they plan on stamping out of this exotic metal... :floor:

Tires still pulling the frame down the road, 30,000 miles on the OE... :rolleyes:

Online tony b

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Re: Welcome to GREEN HELL
« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2009, 12:05:14 PM »


What a tool report IMO, if your hanging your hopes on a Prius tapping out at 109,000 miles to prove your skewed point...then I'm better off talking to a wall.  TFF, I hope you have more than this whackjob... :sleep_1:

Specialty products, LMFAO...aluminum is a specialty metal.  TFF Ford just invested prior to my arze getting the boot, millions and millions of dollars into an aluminum recycling line.  Wonder what they plan on stamping out of this exotic metal... :floor:

Tires still pulling the frame down the road, 30,000 miles on the OE... :rolleyes:

did it ever occur to you that the majority of prius owners live in big cities where mileage counts are typically very low???   :banghead:

eta - and also that the large majority of excusrion/suburban vehicles on the road are 3rd vehicles for most fams and are used perdominantly for trips and etc??
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 12:09:27 PM by tony b »
Blessed is the marksman for he shall never go hungry nor will he miss the guys running away with his television.

"Gsus" saves!!!!!!

Offline OsceolaCabin

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Re: Welcome to GREEN HELL
« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2009, 12:18:03 PM »
did it ever occur to you that the majority of prius owners live in big cities where mileage counts are typically very low???   :banghead:

eta - and also that the large majority of excusrion/suburban vehicles on the road are 3rd vehicles for most fams and are used perdominantly for trips and etc??


Dude your an F150 tool, your assumptions are just that and not facts.  Show me real hard factual data on where "most" Prius are sold and a real cost report.  Here is the link I remember reading last time you brought up these assumptions, TFF 109,000 lifetime.  The shovel says what?   :shrug:

http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-main-forum/26050-prius-myths-their-rebuttals.html

"CNW is a tool for Detriot"... :floor:

 :laugh-til-cry:


Online tony b

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Re: Welcome to GREEN HELL
« Reply #59 on: April 10, 2009, 12:33:01 PM »
please show me a study that supports your claims then...  you've offered up nothing more than anecdotal "evidence" from your experiences...  please tell me you've got a better argument than "oooh, that study is biased" "oooh, they are a tool of detroit" "OMG, global warming"  "what about the children"...   :floor: :laugh-til-cry:

btw - just for kicks i thought i'd add this non-industry related link...  http://www.omninerd.com/articles/Is_a_Hybrid_Worth_It
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 12:57:08 PM by tony b »
Blessed is the marksman for he shall never go hungry nor will he miss the guys running away with his television.

"Gsus" saves!!!!!!